Legislature(1997 - 1998)
04/28/1998 05:15 PM House RLS
| Audio | Topic |
|---|
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HB 458 - GOLF COURSE BEER/WINE LICENSE Number 010 CHAIRMAN KOTT announced the first order of business would be HB 458, "An Act relating to establishing a golf course alcoholic beverage license to allow sales of beer and wine; and providing for an effective date," sponsored by the House Labor and Commerce Committee by request. He noted there is a proposed committee substitute, Version R. Number 026 REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN PORTER made a motion to adopt CSHB 458, Version R. There being no objection, Version R was before the committee. Number 036 REPRESENTATIVE NORMAN ROKEBERG came forward to explain the legislation. He referred to page 2, lines 21 and 22, after the word "golf course," pointed out that the words "and a detailed diagram that clearly identifies a proposed area that constitutes the licensed premises" have been deleted. REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG referred to page 2, line 15 and said the words "for consumption" have been deleted. He said, "What we want to do is focus on the selling and not the consumption because of the problems that revolve around the typical language in any kind of a alcohol beverage license of any nature about designated area or what the premises is. So the reason that's removed is about that and I'll explain that as we get through this." REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG referred to page 2, lines 21 and 22, and again stated after the word "golf course" the words "and a detailed diagram that clearly identifies a proposed area that constitutes the licensed premises" have been deleted. He said, "This is the same problem here. The objective of the bill is not to define (a) - the whole golf course and its boundaries as a licensed premise. We do not wish to do that." Number 107 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG referred the committee to page 3, line 1, and said the words "motor vehicle" has been deleted and has been replaced with "or a vending cart designed to carry beverages or food located on the golf course." REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG stated another addition is on page 4, Section 5. It adds the Alcoholic Beverage Control Board's (ABC) sunset date and changes it from 1998 to 2002, as recommended by Legislative Budget and Audit (LBA) audits for sunsets of the provision of the board. REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG referred to page 4, line 11, and said it repeals the regulation for a municipal golf course license. Number 142 SHIRLEY ARMSTRONG, Legislative Assistant to Representative Norman Rokeberg, Alaska State Legislature, came before the committee. She referred to Version R, page 2, line 20, subsection (2), "A license may be issued only if the applicant does not hold a beverage dispensary license or a restaurant or eating place license;" and said the paragraph doesn't apply to an applicant who holds a beverage dispensary license or a restaurant or eating place license if the license was acquired by transfer from the licensee under AS 04.11.280. Ms. Armstrong stated that means if someone has bought a beer and wine license or a beverage dispensary license on the open market, and they currently hold one, if they want to have a golf course license and they bought it that way, they can have both. They don't have to sell their license. She informed the committee that there are two golf courses that have beverage dispensary licenses, which are more valuable than a golf course license, and the likelihood that they would do that is probably not high. Ms. Armstrong said, "On the same token, people who got their beer and wine license directly from the ABC Board, and the ABC Board does issue licenses, if they got one directly from the ABC Board then they have to give it back to them in order to get the golf course license and that's what that says. So the distinction is being made from somebody who bought one and if they want to get the golf course license, they can go ahead and sell their license and keep the golf course license and that's how that works." Number 180 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said Ms. Armstrong's analysis is correct, but it doesn't fall in naturally in the understanding of the legislation. He referred to page 2, line 20, and said he may ask to delete the words "beverage dispensary licence" because it is actually superfluous to the bill as it doesn't deal with beverage dispensary licenses. REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said, "I am prepared to explain the legislation to the committee so they understand the bill ... Thank you Mr. Chairman, I have gone through -- and the supporting information for the committee substitute for the bill is outlined of the rationale behind this legislation. Number one, this particular legislation would affect only a championship style course which is defined in the bill as being at a minimum of nine holes and 2,950 yards. It does not mean a small chip and putt type course or anything else. I call it a championship style course because it has to have at least that minimum yardage, which would actually preclude a number of small courses in the state of Alaska right now. The idea here is to encourage the development of golf course licenses as a tourist amenity and as a benefit to the recreation activities of a community and help enhance these tourist activities. It also streamlines the ability of the ABC Board to issue these licenses by repealing the existing municipal golf course license in regulation. And then it eliminates the use of a recreational events type license which is the one -- the type of license used by the Birch Ridge Golf Course in Soldotna currently. Some of the complaints about the bill is that this is just another way to get a liquor license in the hands of people that sell alcoholic beverages. Mr. Chairman, point in fact, the reason I got involved in this bill was because the Palmer Municipal Golf Course asked me to work on this. I'm familiar with the folks up there. They have the only municipal golf course license issued in the state. And there is attached to - in your bill package this listing of all the golf courses and the types of licenses and where they got them - that's been provided by the ABC Board for the bill package and the legislature. And there is only really seven golf courses affected by this legislation currently. That does not mean to say that there couldn't be the development of additional golf courses in the future that could apply for this license. Going back to the control issue ... Mr. Chairman, the fact is that the Palmer Golf Course, now, because they have a municipal license, cannot sell a beer out the door. In other words, you can't buy a bottle of beer in the clubhouse under this license and walk across the threshold. They cannot sell any alcoholic beverages on the golf course. They're restricted to the licensed premises as defined by the boundaries of the building. So what happens now that particular golf course allows the players to come on the course and bring their own alcoholic beverages. They have no control over the amount and the consumption on the course because they can't control the sales of it. If the had the ability, under the licensing law, to sell the beer on the course or out the threshold or out the door, then they could have much better control to monitor what's going on there. So I think it's a very positive bill in terms of its ability to foster better control of alcoholic beverages." REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG continued, "Additionally, Mr. Chairman, this bill provides that -- and it's why we had to be really very particular about how we drafted this legislation because what this bill does for the first time allows the sale of alcoholic beverages, but only beer and wine, on the golf course if it's dispensed from a vending cart or a golf cart. Mr. Chairman, you and I share, I know, one love in life besides our wives and that's playing golf, so does the Majority Leader. And we know that every golf course we've been to in the United States and the South 48 has a cart running around where you can buy a beer off of it. Alaska may be unique in the sense it's the only state in the union you can't do that because of the licensing laws. It's ludicrous. What happens on many courses now to allow them to sell any kind of alcoholic beverages over the threshold is it would have to have a package store liquor license. And if you would look at the list that we have here, you'll see that that has occurred in a couple of areas. As a matter of fact, the Anchorage Golf Course at O'Malley has a beverage dispensary license, which doesn't come into play here, but they also have a package store license, which was purchased on the secondary market. So they paid money for it. And that allows them to sell alcoholic beverages across the threshold. Because it's a package store, they may sell higher proofed alcohol and so forth, but they have to have it closed container. But still it doesn't allow them to drive around on the golf course with a cart because the licensed premise is the snack shop there. So that's the problem with the way the Alaska alcoholic beverage laws are designed. They don't provide for the flexibility of having this golf cart drive around and sell you a Coors Light. The problem becomes one of this - we all believe in, particularly all the people in the golfing community, I know Representative Elton also shares this passion, is that we want to be able to foster youth golf and the young people to play the game - a great game in this traditional game of golf because it instills discipline and rules and so forth in the young folks. So then the conflict of the argument becomes, 'How do we reconcile with that? Do we have young people playing on the golf course where alcoholic beverages will be dispensed in a moving cart that moves around and sells it?' The point of fact, Mr. Chairman, this happens as you well know, throughout the country; throughout the world. The fact of the matter is when youngsters are golfing they're either with an adult or supervision, which is required under Alaska law or they're in foursomes or groups of young people that are all underage. And they're basically separated by eight to ten minutes except when they come up to sometimes the par 3 backup, there may be a little comingling of people. But there is a separation just by the very nature of a golf course. So any attempt to dissuade you in this regard because there is problem with young people and having alcohol in one area which can be a 100-acre golf course, for example, I think is without foundation." REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG continued to explain the legislation. He said, "There is a number of charity tournaments, for example, the Republican Party of Alaska, also a fund-raising tournament puts on a major golf tournament, which I've seen the Speaker at and other folks, giving away beer off of a golf cart at that tournament; my eyes didn't deceive me. So it seems rather strange that you can drive around on golf course and give a beer away. Why can't the golf course be able to sell a beer? It just doesn't make sense. But the problem becomes, Mr. Chairman, is that when you try to demark (ph) or put a boundary -- if you made the whole golf course the boundary then that's the licensed premise. Then you couldn't have young people coming onto the course because they would be restricted, they would have to be with an adult. We don't want that so what we've come up with here is a unique drafting fix, thanks to Mr. Ford, which allows the - actually the motorized carts selling beverages and so forth - to be the licensed premise, if you will, running around and being able to dispense this and sell this. That's why we took 'consumption' out of that one line if you'll recall now. We don't want to be involved in monitoring the consumption. We want to be involved in monitoring the sale and that's what this does. So instead of just giving it away, we're going to sell it, and this will enhance the bottom line in the ability for these golf courses to survive. And also, Mr. Chairman, as you well know, as an Air Force veteran, the federal golf courses in Anchorage and Fairbanks are under federal law. They are not governed by Alaskan liquor statutes. So they have those carts and they have snack shacks, they have everything all over the place - all these wonderful amenities. They're the most popular golf courses, which these other golf courses have to compete against." Number 349 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG stated Alaska doesn't have an open container law. It's legal to be able to drink a beer in public. What the bill provides is that the clubhouse, snack shack or small building that's designated, and the motorized cart can be a licensed premise, but not the whole golf course. He said this is kind of a unique fix to be able to overcome that, and it really replicates the traditional means of sales of these beverages for this type of activity. REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said the licenses would be new standalone licenses. The provision of the bill in Section 3 on page 3 exempts the licenses from the population count. He said this is the whole statutory head count for the numbers of licenses issued in an area. He said, "This does not count against you in terms of a license in an area, but in order not to allow a surplus of licenses, we came up with the provision that was pointed out to you on page 2, line 20 through 23, which said this, 'If you purchased a license, a restaurant license or a package license, on the open market and paid money for it, you have the right to go out and resell that license and apply for a new golf course license to replace it if you so elect to do so. Or if you received from the ABC Board a license without on the secondary market, you can trade it in and there is no additional licenses.'" REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG referred to information in the committee file and said, "Selling the existing restaurant eating place license, there is one in Kenai and one in Fairbanks that are just beer and wine licenses. Those will be allowed to go back into the (indisc.). And then there are two existing package store licenses, one in Fairbanks and one in Anchorage. Those could go back into the count. Of the eight licenses that are covered by this right now, and four are granted by the ABC Board, would only be four licenses going back into the account." He said that is a minimal impact on the full member count. Representative Rokeberg said it is possible that a club would want to keep those licenses because if they kept the package store license, they could sell hard liquor on the course. He stated, "This, I think, could be used for the development of new golf courses in the state and that's why it is supported by the Alaska Visitors Association, Aleyska Resort, and all the golf courses that I mentioned in the backup information." Number 432 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER referred to page 2, line 31, and asked if the definition of "golf course" is consistent with what you said it was. REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG responded that he thinks it is consistent. He said you could have an 18 hole course with 2,950 yards because it's an "or." REPRESENTATIVE PORTER said he thought Representative Rokeberg said "nine holes and 2,900..." REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG responded, "It says 'or at least.'" REPRESENTATIVE PORTER said, "It says 'having at least nine holes,' so you could have a nine hole course, 'or covering at least 2,950 yards,'. So you could have a nine hole chip and putt course with a beer cart." REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said it would have to be 2,950 yards. REPRESENTATIVE PORTER suggested including the word "and." REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said he agrees. REPRESENTATIVE PORTER made a motion to delete the word "or" from line 31, page 2, and replace it with "and". There being no objection, it was so ordered. Number 457 REPRESENTATIVE GAIL PHILLIPS asked if the license would preclude a charity or nonprofit organization from giving away beer and wine in a charity tournament. REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG responded that he doesn't think it would preclude them as he believes it would be policy of the golf course. REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS asked way the military golf courses aren't included in the ABC laws. She asked if they are governed by separate alcohol laws. REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG responded, "It's the supremacy of our federal constitution. We have some other case law on that, don't we, going on?" REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS stated when she first saw the bill she did have a problem with the golf courses that had already paid for a more expensive license. She said she is happy with the current version. REPRESENTATIVE KIM ELTON referred to the words "for consumption" being deleted on page 2, line 15. He asked if this means that as he is going off the course, he can stop by the restaurant and pick up a six pack of beer and take it home with him. REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG stated that he would say no. That is not the intent of the bill. He said the ABC Board is uniquely viewed with regulatory power. If there are any problems in that regard, in terms of enforcement, he believes that would be the case. He said he believes the only way you could buy that beverage would be as an open container and not a closed container. That is the distinction between a package license and restaurant. He said this is basically a restaurant eating place beer and wine license. REPRESENTATIVE ELTON said the bill does say that a golf course license authorizes the licensee to sell and serve beer and wine. He said he could buy a bottle of wine or a six pack of beer or two if he is not obligated to consume it on the premise. REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG stated that he understands what Representative Elton is saying, but that is not his intent. Number 493 REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS said if the golf course currently has a package license, you could do that anyway. There would be nothing to prohibit that from occurring. REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said a club could have a beverage dispensary license, a package license, and a golf course licence. Fundamentally, the bill allows for beer and wine sales inside their clubhouse, at the snack shack and off the cart. If you wanted have hard liquor sales, you would have to have a package license to go off. If you wanted to have a full service restaurant with liquor sales, you would have to have a beverage dispensary license. Number 507 REPRESENTATIVE ELTON said, "I guess the reason I asked the question is I guess I don't a have a problem as long as it is consumed there, but if this is the kind of license they get for $400 biannually and then you can sell a six pack and take business away from somebody that has paid for a package license - I do have a problem. Another, I guess, a concern more than a question ... I need to be convinced I guess on why exempt from the population count. Now I do go to golf courses. I sometimes go to golf courses to have a meal and drink a beer, have some wine with dinner. That place is competing with other places down the road. I mean if you exempt these licenses from the population count, I mean, what you're essentially doing is you're adding competition to that place that's down the road. And you're adding a cheap competition because they don't have to pay for a restaurant beer and wine license." REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG responded the golf course restaurant is paying the same amount that a restaurant pays for a beer and wine license, $400 a year. He informed the committee that a problem in Palmer was that there wasn't package store licenses available in the count. They would have liked to have bought one, but they can't. If one becomes available, then it's maybe worth a lot of money on the secondary market. He referred to the city of Juneau talking about building a golf course for years. The fact that they would be able to get a license like this without making a major investment would help to enhance it and that should be a reward for building an amenity. REPRESENTATIVE ELTON said that logic can be extended to almost any other facility that brings economic development. He said he isn't sure that it is consistent to extend it to one type of business without extending it to other types of businesses. REPRESENTATIVE ELTON said, "The other thing that bothers me about this is that the way I read this bill is that you can have a vending cart pull up, sell a beer to half a foursome but maybe not the other half of the foursome because they might be youth. And I mean, we don't allow that to happen in a pub where you can bring in youths and serve." REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG responded that a child can go into a bar with their parent. Number 564 DON DAPCEVICH, Executive Director, Governor's Advisory Board on Alcoholism and Drug Abuse, came before the committee. He informed the committee that in February the board took up this legislation and asked him to come before the committee to speak against it. He referred to the issue of public policy and alcohol consumption and stated every time an issue comes up we find a new way to expand the number of beverage licenses in Alaska. As a consequence, currently in order to support the actual number of beverage dispensary licenses that we have in the state, we would have to have a population of 1,575,000 to support existing licenses. Now there is going to be a new way to get licenses on the market. As a consequence, there will be a release of four licenses into the current mix that they could trade in for a new cheaper license. This is just a case of avoiding the law. It's the cost of doing business. If you build a bar, you build in the cost of buying the license. If you build a golf course, you build in the cost of buying a license as they do in other states. Mr. Dapcevich said the process isn't broken. It is just a matter of a community sitting out that has four times as many licenses now as the law allows and they would have to buy a package store license rather than simply getting one by population. So we fix it by passing a law that expands the number of licenses that are available. He said, "We have a problem in this state with drinking and I think everyone of you, at some time as a legislator, has dealt with issues involving public policy and asking the question, 'Why aren't we doing better with prevention?' We're not doing better with prevention because every street corner in Alaska has a beverage dispensary license and you're just entertaining the law to do some more. MR. DAPCEVICH said you can take your own child into a bar, but you can't take somebody else's child into a bar. You can have your own child on the golf cart when you're drinking, but he doesn't think you could have somebody else's child. He said in that respect, the board is opposed to the bill, but they aren't opposed to the portion of the bill that deals with the sunset of the ABC Board as they very much want to see the board extended and the enforcement that that board provides, extended. CHAIRMAN KOTT indicated there were no further witnesses to testify and closed the public hearing. Number 613 REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS said in the committee file is a letter from the Alaska Cabaret, Hotel, Restaurant and Retailers (CHARR) Association, dated April 17, where they state that allowing changing for or with the exception of changing the motor vehicle to a vending machine, they do support the bill. Number 617 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER said he does understand the testimony of Mr. Dapcevich and recognizes that to a certain degree we are a bit hypocritical in our licensing laws and ways of expanding them. At the same time, we have certainly in the last month recognized a need for (indisc.) efforts at diversification of revenue. Tourism is one and (indisc.) fall in that category. There is, just like in a hotel, an expectation of a certain amount amenities on a golf course that would generate any sort of tourist or local event. Representative Porter said he plays a lot of golf and he doesn't have any qualms that this type of license is going to be a contributor to the major problems of alcoholism that Alaska has. Number 635 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER made a motion to move CSHB 458, as amended, with individual recommendations and with the attached fiscal notes out of committee. REPRESENTATIVE ELTON objected. He stated he doesn't disagree with what Representative Porter has said, but he would like to note that there is nothing that currently precludes a golf course from going after an existing type of license. Representative Elton said he is also bothered by the fact that they don't know if taking "consumption" out precludes somebody from buying a six pack and taking it on the road with them as they leave the golf course. If we use the logic that has been expressed that this benefits tourism, he doesn't disagree with that but river rafting benefits tourism too. Should we sell a beer to somebody at the end of a river raft? He stated using that logic opens the door. CHAIRMAN KOTT asked for a roll call vote. Representatives Nicholia, Phillips, Porter, Kott and Williams voted in favor moving the bill. Representative Elton voted against moving the bill. So CSHB 458(RLS) moved out of the House Rules Standing Committee. TAPE 98-9, SIDE B Number 001 CHAIRMAN KOTT called for an at-ease at 5:58 p.m. He called the meeting back to order at 6:03 p.m.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|